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Video Description
David Konstan, co-author with Ilaria Ramelli of “Terms for Eternity: Aiônios and Aïdios in Classical and Christian Texts,” untangles two Greek words that English Bibles usually flatten into a single word: “eternal.” The first, αἰώνιον, points to an Age — a long but bounded stretch of time. The second, ἀϊδίοις, names what is genuinely without beginning or end. The difference is not pedantry: it sits directly under centuries of debate over Eternal Punishment, the Bible’s language of “ages,” and the later promise of Universal Salvation.
Full Video Transcript
There are two Greek words that we translate as eternal or eternity and they’re different. One of
them is called Ionius and that’s the Greek word from which we get the English word eon, an eon,
because that ion, eon, it just gets translated through Latin and comes into English as eon.
And an eon is a long period of time and you can speak of eons when sometimes in the Bible
it’s translated as age a whole age and so when we sometimes have that rather biblical expression
unto the ages or ages and ages it was even in english it’s ages and ages ago you can use ion
the noun or ionios the adjective in that sense so it means a long period of time now in greek
classical greek aedios really means forever it’s much stricter tends to be used for infinite lines
the size of the whole universe um when they believed it was infinite some some in antiquity
believed it was finite but um so it really had a special use and in the bible is very uncommon
it’s only used twice in the septuagint the greek translation of the hebrew bible and twice in the
new testament um so when ion is used so for example to say it’s as old as the mountains
and you saw that Ionius well you obviously don’t mean infinite you don’t mean eternal because
a moment the mountains were created uh the world is not eternal it has a beginning and an end um
but it is an age we can speak of the well the united the age of aquarius and so on which this is
larger and in christianity one often thinks of a whole ion a whole age a whole epoch
And if you want to think of people’s punishment being Ionius, it could very well mean in that age.
And why this becomes important is that some in antiquity who are saints,
Origen’s theses were condemned, but Gregory of Nyssa was never, he’s a recognized saint,
and they believed that at the end of time, everyone would be saved. They call it universal
salvation and everyone would be saved they believe this for various reasons among others that paul
says at the end of time there will be no evil in the world and how could you have no harm nothing
bad happening when people are suffering eternal punishment there are other reasons a human being
is a finite creature how could a finite creature commit an infinite sin uh or again um god’s love
would presumably override all sins eventually. That was the argument that Ilaria Ramelli and I
developed in that book, distinguishing between these two terms. And once we had done this to
our satisfaction in the Bible, we looked to see how later ancient readers understood it,
which made sense because it was their native language, they were close to it,
Now we’re looking at the church fathers, and we found that it was not just Gregory of Nyssa and Origen, but others too seemed to recognize a difference.
They seemed to be aware that these two terms weren’t the same.
Now, when you go into Latin, you have a problem, because Latin, like English, translated them both as eternal, for which in Latin the word is aeternos, it’s the same word we get, eternal.
And so Latin readers, reading the same word, weren’t attuned the way Greek readers were to the difference.
And that, we argued, was part of the place, part of the reason why the problem arose.
There were other reasons.
You know, at certain periods in history, people become very discipline-oriented, especially when they’re threatened.
And toward the end of the Roman Empire, with foreigners capturing Rome, people upset about dangers.
You get stricter. It’s happened in history. And so even those theologians who didn’t believe in eternal punishment would sometimes say, yeah, but it’s a good idea to let people think it happens this way, because this way will prevent them really from committing sins.
and we’re doing it for their own good but we yourselves know better so it gets complicated
and that’s what we tried to show here is a point of difference between myself and my colleague
she claims that ionius does sometimes mean really eternal but only when the word is applied to god
and i differ not because i don’t think god is eternal on the contrary i think god is eternal
of course the rep well is represented as eternal in the bible there’s no no doubt about it but
rather because in those contexts um we’re talking about god in the long term uh so uh they are using
these terms of god when um thinking that we want to suggest a very very long time and possibly one
of the reasons is that in um christian doctrine the world as we know it has a beginning and an end
and so if i want to say forever but i’m talking about this world i don’t really mean infinite
now there are mysteries here because when you’re talking about things outside of time
everything is different and the theologians were very aware of this and the same for after time so
when you’re speaking of god’s actions in this world it’s appropriate to say in our period of
time. And that’s why I think Ionius is applied then. I can’t say that God lasts for infinite time
if time itself has a beginning and an end. These are complicated, but that’s where I think my
friend Ilaria Ramelli wouldn’t really disagree with any of this, but I think it’s easier to
think of Ionius as always meaning everlasting in worldly terms. When you think of God, you’re
speaking of something beyond that.
Let me add that I still believe
in the way that my colleague and friend, Larry, does not.
We differ on this too.
I think there’s still room for debate on the texts.
There’s no question but that many church fathers
believed in universal salvation.
They say so.
Gregory of Nyssa believed that even Satan
would be certainly saved, and he says so.
So there’s not in doubt.
When ancient writers don’t say so explicitly,
then we have to look at the way they use the words.
And of course, then it’s a matter of interpretation.
I think in many cases, we are dead right there.
They really do believe in eternal, in universal salvation.
You need some debate.
Of course, if Jesus had come out in the gospels
and said, punishment is finite.
In the end, everybody will be saved.
there would be no debate.
No one would ever, ever disagree.
And the issue for interpretation is always,
can, you know, intelligent people
aren’t going to draw these things out of nothing.
And that’s why we needed such a long book
with so much detail, because we were building a case.
You have to build it on one after another,
after another doctrine,
as happens with all cases of interpretation
where there’s legitimate room for argument.
So do I think there is room still for argument?
Yes, I do.
I don’t think that I continually look at people
who want to argue the other side of the picture,
but I think that the case for the biblical authority
for universal salvation can be made.
And in addition, that many, many of the church fathers
understood it just that way.
I think that case can be made.
And I also inclined to think
it’s a more humane interpretation.
I mean, I engaged in this as a scholarly project,
but when people I’ve talked to
and meetings I’ve attended discuss this,
they come at this with a much more personal perception.
Am I to believe that for all eternity,
people I have loved are being subject to the worst conceivable kinds of punishments, unimaginable,
total and endurable pain forever and ever and ever, without any intention of their getting
better, without any intention of improving them, just punishing them for the slips and falls and
mistakes they made in this life. This tormented people. And, you know, these are people who
live their faith, take it seriously. And when they are taught this doctrine, it’s not just
Sunday school. It sinks deep into the heart and it stressed them deeply in their lives.
So when meeting such people, I realized that there’s an urgency to this kind of argument.
And even if they have perhaps not final proof, but good reason to believe that their religion is compatible with this conception of human salvation, they can go about their lives happier.
Source: Love Unrelenting